»EVERY VISION IS A MISSION

An interview with Fred Kelemen by Aleksander O. Loesch (Sheffield University, UK)
....................................................................................................................................................................... Aleksander O. Loesch: Do you see the repetitive acts in the film (such as eating potatoes or looking out of the window) as a visual representation of Nietzsche’s theory of Eternal Recurrence? What do you think of the repeated acts in the film, I find something interesting in how the same actions repeated over the course of six days, are shot slightly differently each time. Perhaps this is a way of visually displaying many different or even conflicting truths on one action.

Fred Kelemen: Nietzsche does not matter. Repetitive, ritualised acting is part of our everyday life - and there is no other life than the life of every day, of every moment; as a result it will be our biographies in the end, the graphics of our lives - it is part of our nature because it is part of nature in general. The movement of the stars and the planets, the seasons - winter, spring, autumn and summer -, the ostensive rising and setting of the sun and the moon, the processes in nature, the rhythms of the oceans and the rivers, the behaviour of animals and plants, the movements of flocks of birds or swarms of fishes, of sexual intercourse, of breathing, and even the shapes of landscapes, blossoms and leaves are rhythmical repetitions. Every heartbeat is. A healthy ECG is a series of equal repetitions. An irregularity would mean a danger to life. The whole visible and sensual existence - the one we belong to at the moment and we are talking about - is flown through by this repetitive beat, this cosmic music. And like animals, which have a strong drive to ritualise their actions, human beings do the same; it connects them with the cosmic music, it makes them dance according to its beat with the invisible stream of the vibrating existence, it makes them part of the whole.
But no repetition is ever identical to one before or after. Each heartbeat is individual, each leaf and blossom is, each sunrise or sunset is, each action is. Every repetition just resembles the other ones of the series, but each one is an own entity. And that is why the repeated actions in "Turin Horse" like dressing, eating, looking out of the window etc. are never exactly the same but variations. Our lives are a series of variations of a small number of basic elements of activity. When the potential of repetitive variations is exhausted, it reaches its end with a last breath, a last heartbeat, a last ignition of the last spark of corporeal life before fading away.

A. O. L.: In your interview with Robert Koehler in CinemaScope journal, you mention that although the production team rarely spoke of Nietzsche during filming, there was a specific piece of his writing that was discussed on one or two occasions. If you are willing to share it, (and remember it?) I ask, what was it?

F. K.: The film is not about Nietzsche. It is about a horse - the Turin horse - and some huMan beings. But me and Béla, we talked about some part of "Also sprach Zarathustra" during some long interruptions on the set waiting for the rain to stop or the sun to disappear - neither of which we wanted to be in the film. We talked about the famous and popular misunderstood sentence "God is dead". And we talked about why Nietzsche lost his mind - or attained enlightenment, remarking that he was stupid, as he told his mother - and became mentally deranged after or during the incident with the abused horse in Turin. Our ideas were not exactly the same.

A. O. L.: Having read about many of the techniques you used in the film to create the atmosphere inside the house and the outside environment (the moving fans, the dimmer board), would you be willing to discuss some of the reasons behind going to such efforts to achieve the results as seen in the film?

F. K.: Very simple, every effort which leads to the realisation of a vision is not only justified but necessary. Every vision is a mission to bring it into this material existence unspoiled and uncompromised. It is what Nietzsche called "to give birth to a dancing star". That is what we have to do, to give birth to a dancing star; again and again.

A. O. L.: Tarr, Rancière and Kovács have all discussed the importance of the constant presence of wind in the film, even reflected in the soundtrack - possibly signifying God’s presence? But I feel that there is also importance to the way light and texture used in the film. I admire how the result is similar to that of the “Zone System” used by photographers such as Ansel Adams to capture every monochrome tone, and thinking how the final image will appear. However, critics, theorists and Tarr have not spoken as much (or I have not come across it) on this topic. I would be interested to hear what you think of this aspect of the film.

F. K.: About the wind there is nothing to say. Wind is wind. It is not a symbol, it does not signify anything. It is a phenomenon of nature. Even if you want to think it signifies God, so what? What would this idea lead to? Nothing results from this assumption. It would be a banality bringing us closer neither to God nor to the wind.
Light is, of course, not a banality, and the relation between light and texture is not either. Texture is the presence of this material world. The experience of texture is a sensual, corporeal one. In cinema, texture only can be experienced visually. Light is a much more sublime element which indicates something more spiritual. Texture can only be visible if it is touched by the light. On the surface of an object - may it be a fabric, a wooden table or the skin of an actor or actress - the material and the spiritual world meet, and by being touched by the light the material is created. Depending on the character of the light the same material can appear in different ways. The light creates the visible world while the light itself remains invisible. What we see and experience is not the light and not the texture, it is the touching of material and light, it is this moment of the amalgamation or the liaison of body and spirit. A very erotic moment. The momentary radiance of the mortal material in the light of inconceivable immortality. And it happens in our eyes, which means in our mind. I was always touched by this phenomenon, by the erotism of the visible world connecting the ephemeral material world with the immortal spirit, the illusionary body with the true light. What we experience is the momentary touching of two states of existence, of the immortal, spiritually perceivable reality and the mortal, sensually perceivable reality, and this is what we believe to be the manifest world. So our physical world is nothing than the instantly repeating touching of the veritable immortal and the illusionary mortal.

A. O. L.: Finally, Tarr has stated that this is his last picture. The reasons he gives are of interest to me and perhaps echo some of the themes in the film itself. I was wondering if you yourself, as a frequent collaborator of Tarr’s, have taken anything away from this into your subsequent work? Or, if you agree with his thoughts on the matter - that all stories have already been told?

F. K.: Of course, I knew before the beginning of the shooting of "The Turin Horse" that it would be our last film together. With this awareness I shot every scene, every picture as a farewell song to our cinematic collaboration which reached a level of wordless understanding, of silent complicity in this film. The shooting started before Spring 2009 and it finished in Summer 2010. It was a long, slow last dance together. And at the last shooting day during an interruption when we were waiting again for the sun to disappear, me and Béla silently strayed through the landscape, knowing that in a few moments, after shooting the last scene, our last common dancing steps would have cone to the end. But we still collaborate - at the Film Factory in Sarajevo.
It does not matter if all stories have already been told or not. As long as you have not told your story of joy and pain, of desire and love, of despair and loneliness, not all stories have been told. But anyhow, stories do not matter. It is not about stories. It is about who expresses, who creates, it is about radiation. And everybody is an individual being, an individual, unique, distinctive, indispensable soul dipped into this physical existence for a certain time to manifest its light. And each soul manifesting its light contributes to the unbroken wholeness of the luminous image of Essence or God or Adonai or Allah or Nothingness or whatever you want to call the reality that is beyond all words and categories.
..................................................................................................................................................................... 27 March 2014